Search in IE7 (Part 2)

Articolo
05/01/2006

I posted previously that in IE7, the user is in control of search, and that changing the default search provider (as well as modifying the list of search engines in IE7’s list) is easy. In this post I’ll describe some of the specifics and recap feedback we’ve gotten from users.

The short version: the search box in IE7 is not Microsoft’s. It belongs to the user. Our guiding principle for the search box in IE7 is that the user is in control. Read on for details.

The Default. The typical default when users install IE7 on their Windows XP machines will most likely be their usual search engine. Despite claims from some people around the web, MSN is not “The Default.” The search box in IE7 uses IE6’s AutoSearch setting because we think this setting is the best indication IE has of the user’s preference. I do web searches every day to find feedback about IE7, and have read some positive feedback to date on this. IE6’s AutoSearch setting today reflects the other software (e.g. Yahoo, Google, or Windows Live toolbar) that the user has installed. Of course, if you buy a new machine from an OEM after we release the final IE7, that OEM can (and will probably) choose a search engine for you.

Consumer Choice and Changing the Default. The user is in control of the search box. If users want to change what IE7 or the OEM set the search engine to initially, they have several ways to do it:

If the search provider is already on IE’s list, all the user has to do is select “Change Search Defaults” from the search box’s drop down menu.
The user can visit a web page and click an OpenSearch link for that search provider. The user will get a prompt and can set the provider as the default. (Unlike other browsers, IE7 supports OpenSearch, an open standard, to make it easy for companies to offer their search technology to users.)
The user can visit a web page that supports search discovery. The search box’s drop down menu button lights up, and the menu includes an item that functions just like the OpenSearch link described above.

Of course, the user can also run a program from a site to accomplish this result.

I should mention that Windows has technology that allows corporations to administer machines remotely, including adjusting settings and preventing users from changing those settings. In a corporate environment, the IT department could choose and deploy a default search engine for all its users.

Feedback so far. The short version is that of all the feedback we’ve received on the product, changing the default search provider is just not an issue for typical end users. Neither, for that matter, is adding or removing search providers from IE’s list. I say this because our users are not reporting problems with this task.

We’ve released a lot of builds publicly over the last year. We have over 24,000 testers involved in the TechBeta program who receive external builds of Windows Vista with IE7 when they become available, and to date we have received no comments about ease of use issues changing search providers while web browsing. The bugs reported in this area were all technical issues... the product not behaving as specified in this blog post or the previous one. We have a wide net -- Windows Vista CTPs go out to over 500,000 sites -- to find problems. Reviewers (who, while technically savvy, do a great job speaking out on behalf of typical users) haven’t called this out. Neither have end users in our beta programs or bloggers using publicly available releases. If you’ve installed IE7 Beta 2, please post a comment below and tell me what you think.

Dean

Comments

Anonymous
April 30, 2006
Why don't Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch? Why don't those browsers prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
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Anonymous
April 30, 2006
I've got a great idea for you: Put a search engine option "all search engines" in IE7. So that a user can type in his text he would like to search and IE7 will open the result of each search engine in a seperate tab.
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
You should read pages 5 and 6 of this thread for some ideas in the future.

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=5&PostID=185159#185159
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
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Anonymous
April 30, 2006
I think so there is already one standard to add a search engine, I mean that src files from Mozilla. Why must have every browser their own ideas to include this function?

May be that the w3c will have the same idea...

So long.. Is it a bad idea to include a src support?
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
I think the label 'Change Search Defaults' should be changed to something like 'Change Search Providers'. The label should be descriptive so users know you can also remove search providers from that menu option, not only change the default provider.

Also, in some screenshots I see in gray the name of the search provider that you are currently using in the searchbox when no text has been entered. SHould I see this, because I don't.
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
> Why don't Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch?

I don't know for Opera and Safari but the next version of Firefox (which should be out before IE7 final) will.
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
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Anonymous
April 30, 2006
I have a little problem with IE7:
When I'm using it, and I would like to open a new page instead of actual page:
I push F4 and I try to write the new www....
But in IE7 I lookd the cursor cursor is jumped into the page adress but it didnt't select the text... The cursor is flashing after the text... I have to select maunally the all text and after i can write a new adress... It's slowest than IE6. :-(
Is it a solvable thing?
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
The biggest immediate threat to Google's dominance over web search - and hence the online advertising money machine - is Microsoft's control over the PC desktop. It's been clear for some time that Google deeply fears that Microsoft will use the rollout
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
An article about this was posted on a newspaper's site.

Google's complaint is a non-starter, especially when they push the Google Toolbar and its default on us.

I might just switch back to MSN to spite them.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
...but yes, the "Add or" part of "Add or remove search providers" is nowhere to be found, as Xepol said.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
"Why don't Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch? Why don't those browsers prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?"

Quoted for emphasis.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
F6 does this...
"I have a little problem with IE7:
When I'm using it, and I would like to open a new page instead of actual page:
I push F4 and I try to write the new www....
But in IE7 I lookd the cursor cursor is jumped into the page adress but it didnt't select the text... The cursor is flashing after the text... I have to select maunally the all text and after i can write a new adress... It's slowest than IE6. :-(
Is it a solvable thing?"
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Two suggestions:

1) Right-click search (using default search provider) on selected text.

2) Option to open search results page in a new tab instead of overwriting the currently displayed page.

Please consider these enhancements. In my opinion they would make IE7 a much better browser.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I really like Alain Stucki's idea of using the multi search providers on different pages.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
@Dean:

I pressume that was a typo!!!

"...those web pages should be able to just add search providers and "spam" the page."

I pressume that was meant to be "shouldn't".

Likewise, I want to confirm that the approach is 2-pronged.

1.) Confirmation is required.
2.) (Even more important!) User interaction is required to request the confirmation.

E.g. The addSearchProvider() function can not be called from:
onload, onfocus, onblur, onmouseover, onbeforeunload, etc.

that it can only be called on:
onclick, onsubmit, or as the direct result of clicking on a hyperlink, or form button etc.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Jayson Blair: "Why don't those browsers [Firefox, Opera, Safari] prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?"

Google is the default search engine in Firefox, because Mozilla is getting paid by Google for its ad revenue generated by the free browser. Additionally, one of the chief developers, Ben Goodger, is on the payroll of Google. And do not forget, both corporations are located in Mountain View, California. It is as easy as that.

See also: http://www.scroogle.org/mozilla.html
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Sometimes companies do things that just leave you baffled. There's lots of commentary out there that...
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
PingBack from http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/2006/05/01/ie-team-responds-to-nyt-article-about-googles-hackles-being-raised/
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I'm trying to figure out how to add. Google.co.jp
Google.ru
Google.cn to my search providers how do I do this?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
@Xepol: "Still tho, without the ability to POST as well as GET"

Xepol: Can you please provide a list of the sites you're having problems with? HTTP2616 RFC requirements for POST idempotency make it a less suitable verb than GET for this use.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Worrying about getting which default search engines NOW is rediculous.

Concentrate on keeping IE from crashing ALL windows when one window has an issue.

Fix the fact that merely allowing Google Desktop Search (which worked fine in IE6) to index browsing history will cause IE7 to crash (which takes out all windows--see above).

Fix the seemingly random nature of when a link opens in a new window verses a new tab.

Give me a way to DELETE Add-ins.

Default search is irrelevant if the underlying browser is unstable and unfixable.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Marc,

We can't fix the fact the allowing Google Desktop Search to index browsing history causes a crash. We changed the format of the files and Google needs to fix their own bug. This isn't caused by a code error in IE but within Google's application. I don't have an ETA on when they are fixing it but you should feel free to ask them. :-)

- Al Billings [MSFT]
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
<<<The beauty of OpenSearch however is that there's nothing stopping anyone from customizing their search provider the way they want to.>>>

Um yes there is. I can't just add google.co.jp. I have to know code. The average consumer is not going to be able to add their own search engines. And you know this.

A japanese or chinese person living in the states wanting to search the co.jp or .cn will never be able to add them on their own.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I think Microsoft should make google their default search engine after all Google does have Search MSN in a drop down on google.com.

No Wait ...
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I thought this was a good post and I like the approach Microsoft is taking here. You guys are making the right choices in this regard and you should be commended for it. So when I read a post in the business2blog today making incorrect allegations that MSN Search is the "default" I was a bit put off.

See the post here, http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/2006/05/the_browser_war.html#comment-16768383
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Adam - maybe your and my definition of "code" is different. See this link. It's all you have to do to author an OpenSearch entry: http://download.microsoft.com/download/2/2/D/22DF8396-B420-4F75-9B20-04AD4AD9B5ED/MSNSearch.xml

It's XML. No compiler required. It's NOT something that we expect average users to do, but the point it, it only takes one enthusiast or search owner to author something like this for their search scope and then everyone else can find & use it. If you have an idea for how to do this more easily, I'd love to hear it!
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
It seems to me like you should take the default search engine from the current default browser...NOT from IE 6. I know that would mean that you have to acknowledge that FireFox, Opera, etc exist, but it would be nice.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006

"We’ve released a lot of builds publicly over the last year. We have over 24,000 testers involved in the TechBeta program... "

So let me get this, you are implying that normal users should get it because techies get it !?

Wow, normal users will never change it because 1) they don't know what a "default search engine" means, nor should they know 2) they have no clue how to make that change even if you tell them : just see how they deal with OK/Cancel dialogs.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
What coding do you use in the HTML (PHP) to create a link on a webpage that will open the link in a new tab in IE7?

You obviously have the functionality to open a link to a new window, and now that you have tabs, it only makes sense to make it so the developer can control the opening of a tab. I know about the ability of the user to adjust the Tools, Internet Options, Tab Settings, so that a Pop Up will open in the new Tab. That is not what I am asking about – I am looking for developer control for a webpage that requires functionality in multiple tabs.

Furthermore, if there is a way to control whether the tab opens in front of the active tab that you have open or behind that tab, please advise.

Lastly, if there is a way to control which tab will be opened, that would be very helpful. First tab, the tab between the first and second tab, the last tab, etc.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Samfind,

There is no code to specifically open a link in a new tab. We made a design decision to not do this. Opening a new window and opening a new tab are the same action depending on the settings that a user has chosen in their Internet Options. There is no way to differentiate the action through code.

If there was a way to open a new tab in front by means of code, it opens things up to the potential of sites spamming users with tabs (just like popups but within your IE window). We chose the current design to not make another avenue for spamming people available to people with bad intentions.

- Al Billings [MSFT]
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Samfind: no as a web page owner you cannot control or target tabs. It's up to the user how/where web pages open (in tabs, in pop-ups, in new windows). We are not allowing web pages to target specific tabs or else we'd have to ship a tab blocker too! Please read the other blog posts here about tabs for more information.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
The search field is pretty broken. Familiar keystrokes like Ctrl-A (as in select all so I can retype the entire search term at once) and Ctrl-Backspace (erase word) don't work. Ctrl-Backspace inserts the ugly block character! How many different types of text input control do we need at once?
Overall it's hard to use - Why do I have to seek out a directory of search engines, choose one from the somewhat limited selection, then confirm with yet another dialog to read and understand before clicking? It's not hard to follow or explain to someone, but it is needlessly cumbersome.
Just include a few popular search engines by default, and it will immediately be more user-friendly for all users and have "advanced features" for power users.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Old School,

If we include "a few popular search engines" by default, which ones would they be? Who determines it? If you own a search engine and don't get included, will you sue Microsoft because of it?

You don't need to seek out a directory of search engines. People, including your favorite search engine, whomever it is, can have a link on their site that will load the search engine into IE as long as you agree to add it. It isn't hard to do at all (which is why we created one to search the IEBlog at one point, for example).

- Al Billings [MSFT]
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Viktor Krammer: "Google is the default search engine in Firefox, because Mozilla is getting paid by Google for its ad revenue generated by the free browser. Additionally, one of the chief developers, Ben Goodger, is on the payroll of Google. And do not forget, both corporations are located in Mountain View, California. It is as easy as that."

Can you explain why Apple's Safari not only defaults to Google, but lacks any ability to add any other search engines (let alone change the default)?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
If a webpage has three iframes in it, how do you control the back, forward, refresh and closing of the iframe independently for each iframe using PHP?
For example, if you have http://microsoft.com, http://yahoo.com, and http://wellsfargo.com in three iframes in one browser window and you
i. click a link in the iframe that Microsoft is in and then you
ii. click a link in the iframe that Yahoo is in and then you
iii. click a link in the iframe that Microsoft is in
we have not been able to make a back button on the web page that would control the iframes independently. Currently pressing back after you clicked the Microsoft link the second time would control the Microsoft iframe and the back again would control the Yahoo iframe and then back again would control the Microsoft iframe.

What we are trying to do is make an iframe the active iframe and then make the back, forward, refresh and close buttons control that iframe independently of the other iframes in the browser window. I understand that there is one history for each browser window, but each iframe has a name and id, but that does not seem to help in implementing independent back, forward, refresh and close buttons.

Furthermore, some websites, Microsoft excluded, do not behave well in iframes, Yahoo and Wells Fargo for example. How do we contain these websites in an iframe unless the user right clicks and opens in a new window or tab?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Mike: no, that's not what we're implying.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
<<If you have an idea for how to do this more easily, I'd love to hear it!>>

I understand what you are trying to do. But this is just not that simple for the average user.

A page similar to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/default_new.mspx but with the ability for users to add more search engines easily on it. They shouldn't have to search google to find them or go through a site that they will never understand. Everything should be in one place. And saying opensearch is that beast is a lie.

The way you are doing it is saying that the average user is just to dumb to know what search engine they should want to surf so make it as hard as possible to get them when it should be as simple as adding say google.co.jp to the list.

This is WAY more complicated then it should be.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Aaron:
"It seems to me like you should take the default search engine from the current default browser...NOT from IE 6. I know that would mean that you have to acknowledge that FireFox, Opera, etc exist, but it would be nice."

How do you determine what search engine the default browser uses? Some use registry entries, some use files located in a specific location, others use another possible method.

I'll put it more simply: No one else in their right mind working on ONE SINGLE product would do the research necessary on EVERY COMPETING product to offer this. Currently to provide what you're asking you'd have to know the location of each competitor's search provider. You could try asking them nicely but most likely you're left with installing the browser and figuring it out yourself. If you were a Microsoft employee do you think they would pay you for the time spent on that research? Should they be able to provided the company is owned by shareholders and not the CEO?

I think it's a great idea in CONCEPT. Implementation is a whole other can of worms. I would not like to code against x number of moving targets that don't have ANY standard shared across them for this sort of thing. The likelyhood that these browsers will make significant changes in this area are low but you're introducing something into a system that could potentially fail easily. That would mean that any time this feature breaks, a patch coupled with HUGE amounts of testing would have to be done for even the most trivial change. If IE were just a browser and not a platform then MS could justify this type of behavior but since the platform is embedded into their OS, they have to reduce anything that has a heavy reliance on external dependencies otherwise they're making constant updates to something that shipped a long time ago. That's fine for security reasons but changing the design mid-application would be foolish.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Adam: Ok I see what you're saying. We do want to make it easy for regular users to discover and add search providers. Don't expect that what you see today will be the ultimate experience when we ship. Also, it sounds one of us made a statement that led you to believe that there's something inherent in OpenSearch that will make it easy for users to discover/add providers (hence your comment "And saying opensearch is that beast is a lie."). That's not what we meant: what we mean is it's a great & easy way to allow extensibility in the search space. Discoverability is a separate issue and is something that we'll work on over time.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Since appearances do matter, please consider making the last possible action that you could do, in other words aks the users to choose a default search engine when they first launch their browser. After all, there is no reason not to do that and since users have to set up their Internet connection at the beginning anyway and their proxy etc, why not their default search providor? At least give a very good reason why you won't let a user choose their default search engine at first launch? To my mind, even though Google might be overdoing it, the IE team should still show their good intentions in practice and allow the user the choice of search engine at first user of IE7. If you don't do that then you continue to run the risk to be accused of taking advantage of your strong market share to push MSN onto users. There is no reason why you should not allow the user the choice if as you say you want the user to be in control. In addition, one extra step at first launch will not incovenience users but will do a lot to show you intentions of not taking advantage of your market share to push MSN. If you don't allow this then Google's accusations will continue to have at least some footing. Why should you argue about it? Allow the user to choose at first run. Easy!
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I was able to change the search engine on day one. I then visited Google and saw a "popup" that told me to click to change my default to Google. I did it just to see it work. However, instead of finding the Google that was already there, it added "Search Google". I used that for awhile, but once I saw A9/Amazon change to Windows Live, I wanted it instead of Google or even MSN.

But it wasn't available on the pull down nor on the find more... page. I thought hope was lost, so I went over to A9 just to see what was happening... and then over to WindowsLive... I have to say I was impressed with the autodiscovery feature.

Now, WindowsLive Search is my default search engine on IE7b2
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
I was able to change the search engine on day one. I then visited Google and saw a "popup" that told me to click to change my default to Google. I did it just to see it work. However, instead of finding the Google that was already there, it added "Search Google". I used that for awhile, but once I saw A9/Amazon change to Windows Live, I wanted it instead of Google or even MSN.

But it wasn't available on the pull down nor on the find more... page. I thought hope was lost, so I went over to A9 just to see what was happening... and then over to WindowsLive... I have to say I was impressed with the autodiscovery feature.

Now, WindowsLive Search is my default search engine on IE7b2
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Go IE7 team! You folks are leading the way in allowing the end user to have complete customization over their search defaults, in addition, supporting Open Search & allowing the user to easily change it when they visit a search engine is great!
Anything that Google might say about IE7 has no merit in this situation.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
"[FUD-ALERT]Unlike other browsers, IE7 supports OpenSearch, an open standard[/FUD-ALERT], to make it easy for companies to offer their search technology to users."

FACT1: The search function in FF is called Mycroft and is based on an older standard called Sherlock. Mycroft is also an open standard. FYI, Mycroft is Sherlock Holmes' brother.

FACT2: It is true that Mycroft is limited. My croft does not provide an easy means of notifying you that a search plugin exists.

FACT3: OpenSearch 1.1 is not actually an 'open' standard. It is in fact controlled by Amazon.

From the FF development forums:
"cbeard: OpenSearch 1.1 isn't actually open, it's available for other people to use, but it's controlled by Amazon. So we aim to be compatible and extensible with any other emerging standards.

ben: the implementation will be similar to OpenSearch, but the namespace might be different to allow us to extend it as required. We're leaving ourselves open to wherever this ecosystem moves."

FACT4: The next version of FF will support OpenSearch (as the above quote mentions). FF 2.0 will be released before IE7, and therefore will support OpenSearch before IE7.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
In response to the question about building more search providers, without code, I've thrown together a quick little page that can help you get started by turning a simple search results URL into a new search provider.

http://www.fiddlertool.com/ie7/searchbuilder.asp
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
http://www.fiddlertool.com/ie7/searchbuilder.asp

THANK YOU!
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
PingBack from http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20060501/3247/
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
PingBack from http://blog.v7n.com/2006/05/01/dont-be-hypocritically-evil/
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
How about allowing users to create aliases so they could, for example, type one letter in the Address field and launch a mapped Web site. So I could type "m" and http://www.microsoft.com/ would open. Yes, I know this is possible through the registry. Why not BUILD IT INTO THE BROWSER?

Same could be said for allowing the user to set up customized quick searches, so I could type "g microsoft" and would receive Google search results for the search term "microsoft"?

If you want more good ideas, install NetCaptor. I've been using it for years and years with great results.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Google is just afraid because they have not innovated since 1996, when their search was developed. Google has done ZERO innovation since then.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
PingBack from http://www.rationalmind.net/2006/05/01/when-good-companies-go-bad/
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Microsoft surely knows by now that most of it's casual customers don't bother to change defaults, or any other settings for that matter. The only reason you'd implement a "default" feature is so people think it's the safest thing to use.

Really what's the reason for a "default" search engine? Who's smart idea was that?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Being able to search from within in IE is nothing new. IE 4 came with a Search pane explorer bar, which probably had a default of some sort: probably a MS-owned property. This bar could be customized as well to use other providers. I don't remember anyone crying foul back in 1997, so why should they be now?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Craig - IE already supports those shortcuts (and has since IE4). See our blog post on this topic at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/07/26/197754.aspx
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
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Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Oh and Dean, your boys have done a fantastic job with IE7. When IE reaches the final release it will be my default browser again.
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
PingBack from http://rjdohnert.wordpress.com/2006/05/02/dean-on-the-ie-blog-responds-to-google/
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
With all due respect, if you go through with this, MSFT deserves to get clobbered by the DOJ for billions.

Leveraging your OS monopoly into a browser monopoly and then using the browser monopoly to clobber search revenue is completely anti-competitive. Like it or not, you are a monopoly and you are held to a different standard as a result of it.

Google certainly has no way of flipping a switch and automatically becoming the default search provider on nearly every desktop. No other company has that power right now. And you think it's FAIR for Microsoft to do it?
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Opera 9 lets you right-click a search field (any search field) and choose "Create search...". That's probably as good as it can get
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Opera 9 lets you right-click a search field (any search field) and choose "Create search...". That's probably as good as it can get
Anonymous
May 01, 2006
Google say they're not happy that MSN is the default search engine for the IE7 search pane, but when we look at the facts, we see that MS is actually FAIRER than Google when it comes to the Search Pane.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
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Anonymous
May 02, 2006
<<Leveraging your OS monopoly into a browser monopoly>>

It's not a monopoly when you have choices! I don't have to get a computer with windows. I don't have to use interent explorer. You can't blame a company for being successful.

Google proves to come out as the biggest babies. This is Microsoft's product, they can chose who or what they include in it. I may end up using MSN over this. Only if Microsoft could get idn to display properly in their search.

Congrats guys you really do have the best browser out now. Now let's get it out to the masses!
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
My IE7 Beta 2 defaulted to Google because I had the Google Toolbar installed on IE6, which I used previously.

I don't know why Google is having a cow - I was surprised that I wasn't even notified about the possibility of switching to MSN Search - my search menu shows Google - Default, and has options to search for other providers, etc. - but only Google is listed and is default, and with no user intervention on my part since installing IE7.

By the way, I'm finding that sometimes, sine links do not have Open in New Tab, only Open in New Window.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
@Samuel: The "Open in new tab" being missing from the context menu is caused by a bug in the Google Toolbar. I believe they plan to fix this in a later version of the toolbar.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
As a new user to IE7 Beta 2 I have had no problem with selecting my favourite search engine albeit mine was set on MSN by default from V6. The selection process was easy to set up ASK, Google and Yahoo search, these being my current ones on V6.
Only problem with the search that I have come across is an instance of feedback being in all languages, with only a few in English, very confusing.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
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Anonymous
May 02, 2006
PingBack from http://blog.plaxoed.com/2006/05/02/is-it-just-me-or/
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
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Anonymous
May 02, 2006
PingBack from http://googlisti.com/02/05/google-vs-microsoft.html
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
> please remove the feature in the next IE build so google can't see that i don't have there engine in IE7 Searchbar?

Google can't see what engines you have in your search bar. They're just assuming that you don't have Google there.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
> Google can't see what engines you have in your search bar. They're just assuming that you don't have Google there.

That's not true.. When i add Google to my searchbar te big picture on Google is gone... When i remove it (like I want to) the stupid thing is coming back again...
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
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Anonymous
May 02, 2006
Hans (or anybody) could you:
1) install Fiddler:
http://www.fiddlertool.com/fiddler/

2) Capture a request to Google WITHOUT the setie7defaultsearch.exe installed

3) Capture a request to Google WITH the setie7defaultsearch.exe installed

4) Post the results?
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
我一直认为，互联网公司对用户桌面的争夺，并不真的是看重桌面本身，最重要的原因在于，桌面控制着通向互联网的默认路径。微软和Google的战争，现在可能刚刚开始。
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
I believe Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run. If you delete browsing history, they start offering their tool again.

I'm not sure why Google isn't using the documented search discovery feature rather than this downloadable executable.
Anonymous
May 02, 2006
"I'm not sure why Google isn't using the documented search discovery feature rather than this downloadable executable."

Mayby the Google executable makes google the default search provider which is something the search discovery feature does not. For Google being the default provider means everything.

@EricLaw
"That's not true.. When i add Google to my searchbar te big picture on Google is gone... When i remove it (like I want to) the stupid thing is coming back again..."
"I believe Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run. If you delete browsing history, they start offering their tool again."

A cookie would not detect that someone removes the Google search option again. Somehow they must detect the browsers search settings. That is rather anoying because Google should not be able to see which search engine I prefer when I visit their site.
Anonymous
May 03, 2006

I guess&nbsp;people who worked for Microsoft a few years ago must have some idea what it's like to...
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
I have no problem with the search bar or selecting my search providers. Like it said in the tour press alt and enter for the search to open a new tab. The only problem I have is IE7 freezes for a few seconds whena new tab is open. Keep up with the good work!
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
The search bar works great! however IE7 Beta 2 wont download the picuters unless I have that tab showing. I always have to right click in the picuter spot and click show picture for it to download. Is there a setting I need to change?
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
PingBack from http://vano.wms.sk/google/google-sa-zacina-bat
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
Why can't there be a "default search engine selection" prompt during the IE7 installation or "run once" routine?
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
he seems to be right about the google thing
interesting....
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=57562
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
> Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run

This appears to be at least partially true. I've made manual HTTP requests for Google's home page that differ only in the cookie value -- the one with no cookie returned the "set your default search" HTML, and the one with a cookie did not.

However this doesn't explain how Google knows they're no longer the default search engine. Nor does it explain how the cookie gets set in the first place -- the download page does not set a cookie.
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
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Anonymous
May 03, 2006
@Maurits: They're using a cookie. Run their tool, then click Delete Browsing History. Delete All. Restart IE and go back to google.com. Result: They offer the .exe again.

The download page doesn't set the cookie, the .EXE does. Executables can set cookies using the WinINET API. See InternetSetCookie in the WinINET API.

Google doesn't (and cannot) detect if they're the default search. Try it out and you'll see that changing your provider doesn't cause them to offer the .exe until you delete your cookies.
Anonymous
May 03, 2006
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Anonymous
May 03, 2006
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Anonymous
May 03, 2006
Nektar,

It isn't that simple. Does Microsoft have to list every search provider in the world and ask the user which one they want? That obviously wouldn't work. So, what does Microsoft have to list? Who makes that determination? If someone is left out, what do they do?

Leaving all that aside, does that experience make the product more confusing for users instead of less? Do they simply want search to "just work" and be done with it?

OpenSearch provides very simple and easy ways to choose providers via a bit of xml and a link. You don't even need to run an .exe on the user's system like Google does today. IE7 leaves your existing autosearch provider in place. If you've already changed it to Google (by installing the Google Toolbar, for example, or by having a computer from an OEM that Google has a deal with), it is still Google when you upgrade to IE7.

We have to balance technical requirements, usability (or ease of use), and simplicity along with any other requirements people can think of. We've chosen the solution that we think works best. We support a standard that anyone else can use as well, a standard not created by Microsoft.
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
Al Billings [MSFT], Christopher Vaughan [MSFT]: There is no code to specifically open a link in a new tab.

I hope that there will be code for the IE platform and add-on developers to manage tabs and open pages in new tabs programmatically. Please do not forget the developers, developers, developers ;-)
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
> Executables can set cookies

I didn't know that... good to know. Makes sense.

It seems the .exe doesn't set the cookie directly. Instead, it launches this URL in IE (even if another browser is the default)

http://toolbar.google.com/tbredir?r=defaultsearchset&l=en

This in turn redirects to

http://www.google.com/url?sa=p&pref=ds&pval=1&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Foptions%2Fdefaultset%2Ehtml

(note the pref=ds and the pval=1 -- I'm guessing DS stands for Default Search.)

This sets Google's PREF cookie to have a :DS=1: section as follows:
Set-Cookie: PREF=ID=(...):TM=(...):LM=(...):DS=1:S=(...); expires=Sun, 17-Jan-2038 19:14:07 GMT; path=/; domain=.google.com

and then redirects to
Location: http://www.google.com/options/defaultset.html

So if you don't want to see the widget, modifying your google PREF cookie to have a :DS=1: section will hide it, even if Google isn't your default search, and even if you haven't ever run the executable.

On the other hand, if you do want to see the widget, modify your google PREF cookie to have :DS=0: instead, or take the DS=# section out altogether.
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
"Remember that most users click through the Setup defaults as well, so you still have to have a default somewhere."

Prompt buttons can be displayed with a null selection
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
Hi Dean,

Firstly, I love IE7. Tabbing and RSS support is great, along with he new menu set up.

My comment (and Im sure I'm repeating that f other people) is, the Search in IE7 (along with RSS) is the feature I have probally used the most.

I have all my fav web sites set up in the drop down list and I must say it has changed the way I surf the web. Most of the sites in my list don't advertise support for Open Search but seem to use the common '+' approach. At the moment I have to set these Search Providers using Regedit, will there be an interface for custome Providers in he final realease?

Rich
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
I've been having problems with Firefox freezing ever since I downloaded and started using IE7 beta 2. Coincidence?
Anonymous
May 04, 2006
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Anonymous
May 05, 2006
I found it picked up my default preference to use Google so I found the whole issue being written about a bit of a tempest in a teapot.
Anonymous
May 05, 2006
EricLaw,

I imagine there is a better description, but the use of a plus sign instead of a space.

The link you provided was very useful.

Rich
Anonymous
May 05, 2006
two big problems with the IE 7 search/ For one I would like my search results to open in a new Tab or window.

And also I should have the option to remove the search from IE 7 if I want. Like you can with the links bar and other things.

Microsoft please add this.
Anonymous
May 05, 2006
"Does Microsoft have to list every search provider in the world and ask the user which one they want?"
Of course not. Do you list every search providor in your search guide? No. You see, you have already made such a decision when building the Search Guide. You have already answer that question in the options you give your users when they want to Add a new providor in IE7. After all, let's be honest: how many general web search providors are there? Only 4 search databases. There you have it.
"So, what does Microsoft have to list?"
The same list as you already produced, and thus decided upon, but also updatable. The Search Guide.
"If someone is left out, what do they do?"
If you give users the ability to choose the default search providor then who will complaint? We are talking about 3-4 major players here? I am talking about general web search remember, so do not tell me about others who are more customized search engines.
"Leaving all that aside, does that experience make the product more confusing for users instead of less? Do they simply want search to "just work" and be done with it?"
Come on. It is only an extra dialog with no default choice selected or with one selected if you would think that such a decision would improve the experience. In any case, do users find it confusing when they set up their Internet Service Providor or their e-mail providor. Why don't you pre-select Hotmail as a default e-mail providor to make things less "confusing". In any case, you could mix the search engine choice together with other choices eg. the language ones so as not to add an extra screen and make the "experience" slower as you say.
Anonymous
May 06, 2006
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Anonymous
May 08, 2006
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Anonymous
May 08, 2006
Frankly, open search in IE7 couldn't be easier or fairer. When I upgraded from 6, the browser installed Google, which was my default search engine. It also reinstalled Google search bar. I appreciate that. Adding new providers was a snap. Thanks, guys!
Anonymous
May 08, 2006
"Nektar: Have you had any problems changing your search provider? What have you tried that you had trouble with?"
No I had no problems with the search experience. As you can see, my comments were purely on the well-publisized issue of the default search providor choice in IE7 which was braught up as a complaint by the competition. My suggestion was that Microsoft could potentially resolve all and any such complaints once and for all, by asking the user to choose a default search providor from a list of the 3-4 major general web search engines during setup or first time a user opens up IE7, much like currently users set up their e-mail providors and dial-up settings the first time they run IE via the Internet Connection Wizard. I have also commented on why the obstacles put forward by your team which would prevent the implementation of such a scheme were, in my opinion, unfounded.
This is my opinion which the IE Team can agree with or disagree. However, as a user of IE, I am still not convinst that your decision of following the IE6 defaults concerning the search providor which is MSN by default and not asking the user has no competitive reasons behind it. This is because in my opinion your reasons for not asking the user are mere excuses that could have easily been bypassed. After all, there are examples of Microsoft solving much more difficult user experience issues than a simple question and the choice of what will be placed in a list.
In any case, thanks for providing such an open place for us to voice our opinions and I hope that my comments are seriously considered as my intentions are purely constructive.
Thanks.
Anonymous
May 13, 2006
I just installed IE7 Beta 2 a couple days ago and have been impressed. I found changing search providers to be very easy. I don't see a problem.
Anonymous
May 25, 2006
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June 15, 2006
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June 25, 2006
PingBack from http://www.centplus.com/more-feeds-for-speedposted-by-adam-sah-software-engineer-the/
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July 17, 2006
PingBack from http://macstansbury.com/ruminations/google-attempting-to-leverage-microsoft.htm
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October 19, 2006
PingBack from http://furious-angel.net/archive/2006/10/20/ie7/
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January 29, 2007
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Search in IE7 (Part 2)

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