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IE July Chat Transcript Online

  • Articolo

The transcript from the July 13th chat is now available online. The response to Beta 3 has been great and people are overall happy with the recent improvements. There were a bunch of us and we enjoyed answering the stream of questions as they poured in.

You can find our chat schedule at https://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.mspx . We typically hold the IE chats on the second Thursday of every month. Keep sending us your feedback and see you at the next chat!

Cheers,
Uche Enuha
Program Manager

Comments

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Funny, the first question about everyones favorite memory leak... the URL apparently didn't work?

    works fine for me:
    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=162767

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    I missed the chat unfortunately, but wanted to ask:

    Will the final / next beta of IE7, fix the rendering of the file dialog, and the quick tabs to NOT use the Windows 95 GUI?

    It may seem like a cheesy point, but it makes IE7 look like an old application, when it hasn't even gone final yet.

    (and yeah, like always, these bugs are in Feedback... have been there for weeks or months)

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Re: (From the chat...)
    "Q: I have Ubuntu downloaded as an iso image to my desktop and want to be able to install it on virtual pc, i think i have the virtual machine set up, but i dont know how to install Ubuntu from the iso image
    A: what is Ubuntu?"

    You're joking right?... the user is using Windows for his dev environment, but wants to test on Ubuntu (a popular Linux disto... if you seriously don't know)

    Since installing IE7 is tied to the OS... I think questions around VM's are very important.  While supporting IE6, there is no way that many of us can install IE7 until it has gone public, been tested, and has a track record that IT dept's will accept.

    Anyway, when talking about IE, we are often talking about the web, and development of web based sites, and applications.

    I think the tone, of the IE team, needs to be a bit more supportive of the fact that MAC users use the Internet too, as do UNIX and LINUX users... and that although IE holds the largest market share of users... it is an open playground and everyone is allowed to participate.

    same goes for all the comments in the chat, where users are directed to submit a feedback item... thats cool, but if the users just notified YOU of the issue, YOU should take some responsibility to track it yourself first, since your team(s) will have much more knowledge of where the issue resides, whose responsible for it, and if it is an easy/hard/critical issue... and any of the dependencies.

    Getting tired of the games.

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Yeah, it's like asking about potatoes in a math class, no? :)

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with the tabs, when IE7 CSS and DOM support is still minimal... !
    This forces developer to spend double their time developing applications, one using standards, another coded for IE !

    Now with IE7, IE will recover again a bit of its market share, and IE will be forgotten for another 5 years, because it makes MS no revenue. !

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Looking for some commitment dates.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    We keep hearing about "this feature will be in a future release" we will look into "abc" in the future.


    Can you please do a blog post, on when (roadmap) you plan to implement all the missing features and fix the major bugs we keep bringing up, that you keep telling us, will NOT be in, or fixed in IE7.

    1] A proper, built in, JavaScript console.
    2] Find as you type, in page searching.
    3] Bookmark organizing support.
    4] All CSS features/selectors that are not currently supported
    5] Printing fixes
    6] Multiple selection private data clearing (e.g. cookies, cache, saved passwords... Clear)
    7] Toolbars for IE browser, to not show in Exploring (e.g. MSN toolbar)
    8] Full support for PNG (e.g the correct colors)
    9] JavaScript 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, ???
    10] Full W3C DOM Event handling support
    11] Full W3C DOM Mutation support
    12] Full W3C DOM getElementById() support (e.g. not matching on name attributes)
    13] The INFAMOUS BUTTON ELEMENT!!! value attribute is what should always be submitted
    14] JavaScript dialogs.  All look very imature.
    15] A browser built in option to set what editor opens when doing a view-source.  Its obvious now, that IE has no plans to do something nice with this, just dumping it to notepad.  At least make it easy for all of us to bounce this to our favorite text editor, so the code can be easily viewed, and syntax highlighted
    16] DOM attribute namespaces (proper support, not concatination)
    17] SVG (native)
    18] The other Button bug! [-S-T-R-E-T-C-H-]. Surely this just makes IE look like an eternal Beta program.  If IE was open source, I would bet this would have been fixed within a day of the first visual occurance of the glitch.
    19] Scrollbars, on things that don't need em. Every other browser manages to do just fine with this. When is IE going to wake up and remove them when not needed (on textareas, select-multiples, frames, windows, etc.)

    ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP! ROADMAP!

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    @Steve: Sorry-- The scrollbar in quicktabs was fixed, but it's unlikely that we will update the file upload dialog to be themed on XP.  (It's already themed on Vista). The vast majority of users don't see this dialog even once a day, and would prefer that we concentrate on higher visibility UI.

    @Rick & Derek: I think it's safe to say that visiting an IE chat and asking for help with Virtual PC isn't guaranteed to get you the answer you need.

    Everyone's got their interests and areas of expertise.  IE has lots of different folks who have experience on probably every OS & browser combo in existence, but that's not to say that every IE team member personally knows every competitor to every product that Microsoft makes.

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    @Jim: I'm not sure I understand your issue #7?  

    Are you saying that you see the MSN Toolbar in Windows Explorer, and you don't want to?  Is there a reason that you don't just turn it off in Windows Explorer and leave it on in IE?

    As for #15, you can set the View Source editor using a single registry key-- and many popular editors like EditPadPro already set it.  See http://enhanceie.com/ie/ for more info.

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    When one clicks the new "read mail" button, it opens hotmail/live mail/whatever in a new window.

    I tried setting it so all windows open in tabs, but it still opens a new window. I don't like having all windows open in tabs anyway, but it would be nice if when I'm wanting to check my e-mail I don't have to have a brand new windows just for that.

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Download URL display: please add full selectable ( means select and copy ) URL of the download file. This is useful as one can select the File URL and use some other download manager in case of bigger files.

  • Anonymous
    July 19, 2006
    Greetings again,

    My concern is still about memory usage.

    Just check it out how "Maxthon" uses memory with 12 tabs on IE7 beta 3 engine, just using 10 mb's of RAM while IE7 beta 3, with their own engine, using 70 mb's in 1 tab. Just curious where is this 60 mb's being used in IE7.

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    Hello,

    This may have already been reported so apologies if I am repeating it.

    When the browser is in full screen mode (F11) and one tries to access the address bar (using CTRL+d), although one is able to type in a URL and have it loaded, focus is not given to the bar at all (so you don't know what you are typing).

    Is this intentional?

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    Its just not going to work for me until they fix the broken drag&drop on the favorites menu, and that silly expanded folder tree when adding new ones.

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    @EricLaw
    >>Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:35 PM
    >>by EricLaw >>[MSFT]
    >>@Jim: I'm not sure I understand your issue #7? ...  

    do you understand the 17 remaining items?
    can you tell us something about them ?

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    geez, mike? a bit harsh?

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    My PC sometimes crashes while woeking (or because of blackouts).

    After rebooting:
    -Word: I saved copy of your document. Want me to restore it?
    -Visual Studio: Fortunately we autosaved your solution. Here it is.
    -Maxthon (browser): You were browsing these sites. I can open all of them all or you can select only those you need.

    -IE7: I trashed your session. Enjoy.

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    Fduch -- Maxthon's approach is nice, as long as it asks you before opening them.  The last thing that you want is to be at some malicious site that crashes your browser (or add-on), and for that site to automatically be started when you re-open IE.

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    PingBack from http://www.windowsobserver.com/1969/12/31/in-and-around-the-net-%e2%80%93-20-july-2006/

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 20, 2006
    @steve c: As PatriotB noted, XP is showing the system file open dialog, but the theming flag isn't set correctly.  It's a pretty trivial issue.  It sounds like you must be doing lots of file uploads, which makes me wonder if you have other suggestions (a la your "Places" one) on how to make this scenario better.

    @Drew: Re: Hotmail issue.  I'm afraid that we won't be able to get the Hotmail button to open in a new tab rather than a new window.  It's unfortunate, but it's a limitation in the legacy Hotmail library that we didn't really touch this time around.  Have you had a chance to try the new Windows Live Mail Desktop beta?

    @Fduch: I agree-- there's definitely an opportunity to have a cool "recover my session" feature.  I'm planning to write one as a sample extension.

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    hehe...

    another screenshot... which shows the uber cool... XP themes in the open dialog, in a non-XP themed dialog.

    http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iefiledialogxpie62fe8.png

    looks very strange when you type in your file path...

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    oh, and the losing label thing... only happens in IE, not in any other app, that uses the "real" dialog.

    Thus, I'm not convinced that it is "just a theme issue".

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    @ EricLaw [MSFT]
    Right click of a link is not good always because the link url may be different by effective file download url (example: the files on Microsoft Download center).
    So it's very important that the effective download url can be selected/copied from the download window.

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    In the transcript the experts refer to specific questions (i.e.)
    RE: Q67 -- So to confirm...
    Maybe you could number the questions so you don't have to count them?

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    <quote>
    Funny, the first question about everyones favorite memory leak... the URL apparently didn't work?

    works fine for me:
    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=162767
    </quote>

    Just after chat the /strangely started working for them/
    And they closed that bug with "by Design".
    So we all now  have clear ansewer: "Yes IE7 is designed to make your all system unstable and crash other apps."

    URL for the closed bug:
    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=162769

  • Anonymous
    July 21, 2006
    @Fduch

    "All your base are belong to us!" huh... oh well.

    All I know right now, is that Beta3 is not stable enough for deployment at all.  I'm not sure how much of it they can fix before the next/final? release, but I certainly hope they start squashing these bugs.

  • Anonymous
    July 22, 2006
    great site with good look and information...i like it

  • Anonymous
    July 22, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 23, 2006
    Is it possible to drag a tab from a window to another window? Or drag a tab to an empty area to open a new window? Sometimes it is really handy to have a side by side view of web pages.

  • Anonymous
    July 23, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 23, 2006
    The comment has been removed

  • Anonymous
    July 28, 2006
    Welcome

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